All right. We're going to go ahead and get started. Thank you for joining us today. My name is Megan Hostetler. I'm a Product Marketing Director at Emarsys. And I have the pleasure of being your host for today. So without further ado, let's go ahead and talk about omnichannel. So from my experience, just about every company aspires to have that omnichannel experience for their customers, but not every company can achieve it. So if you're one of those companies who are challenged with delivering these personalized omnichannel experiences to your customers, then guess what? You're not the only one and you picked the right webinar to join. So before we get started, I just want to share a bit about who we are at Emarsys. So we're an omnichannel customer engagement platform. We are purpose built for marketers to deliver personalized omnichannel experiences. And I'm proud to say that our business value of our platform has been assessed by third parties like IDC, who have interviewed our customers and aggregated a 25% increase in omnichannel campaigns, 35% more productive marketing teams, and a 385% three year ROI, which is probably why we're named a leader for worldwide omnichannel marketing platforms for B2C enterprises in 2023. So you can already tell the omnichannel bingo buzzword game is already started. So when we think of omnichannel, we're not thinking about just building more channels just to build them. What we want to do is make it easier for you to implement those channels and orchestrate them at scale. This is why Emarsys is the platform of choice for some of the leading brands that you see here on the screen across retail, e-commerce, consumer goods, sports and entertainment, and more. And of course, we do hear the omnichannel word a lot. And we do know that these relative experiences for our customers is an imperative, but can be a struggle to adapt to both that customer expectation of omni channel, but also the business expectations you need to provide results. So to become that profitable marketing team, we've partnered with Forrester to better understand the omnichannel difference. So we sought to understand how organizations approach customer engagement, the challenges in personalizing customer experiences across different channels, and the initiatives involved in improving collaboration between marketing and IT. Now to set the stage here for what we're going to be discussing today. I wanted to pose a question to the audience here. So which phase here best describes your organization's current state in implementing a customer omnichannel strategy? So go ahead, share your answer in the chat. I'll quickly walk you through what we saw from our research while you do that. So as you can see, more than 50%, so this is more than half are still below that mid stage of maturity, which honestly isn't quite shocking to me. What I see from from working in the field, from working with customers and seeing the prospects and folks that come to us with these problems, it doesn't shock me. I mean, you would be surprised that some of the best and biggest brands in the world still struggle to roll out these personalized omnichannel experiences at scale. And many of the reasons we're going to be walking you through today. So to help us understand what to consider when pulling together that omnichannel strategy, I've invited Rusty Warner to the table. So Rusty is a Principal Analyst at Forrester to join me and give his take on this omnichannel difference research. So I'm going to go ahead and invite Rusty up to take it away. Great. Well thank you, Megan, and it's a pleasure to be with everyone today. As Megan already shared Forrester worked with Emarsys on a research study. And we're going to walk through some of the results. So we've got a lot of data to share with you, but we've tried to compile it in a way that will give you some insights and some helpful advice that might put you well onto your way with your omnichannel journey. We're going to start with what I like to call the money slide. Why would you do this in the first place? Megan shared with you the conundrum and the maturity curve. And so there are a lot of organizations out there who struggle with omnichannel customer engagement that might lead you to ask, well, why would I do it in the first place if it's so hard? Well, there are some great rewards out there for the companies who get it right. And I'll focus on the first two that we see here. Number one, increased customer lifetime value. So that directly speaks to the revenue and the profit that is available to those organizations who invest in omnichannel customer engagement and see success from their efforts. But close behind that. We see improved customer engagement. And I'm happy that along with revenue and profit, we see that focus on customer engagement. That says to me that the organizations that we talk to are focused on the customers outcomes and those customers getting what they would like from the brand. And that's very important because engagement isn't just what you do, it's what you do with your customers. And it is a two way interaction for these omnichannel engagements that you have. Now, there are some other benefits to the organization here that are also going to be really important, like operational efficiency or perhaps gaining a competitive advantage in your market. But then there are some that will take longer for you to see the payback. But for me, that is a good thing. I like that when you're making these investments, you're not going to just see a short term return or a short term return on that investment, but you're actually going to see some longer term benefits. It's going to show up in higher customer retention, and it's going to show up in better customer loyalty down the road. And as Megan shared already, we conducted the survey across the UK, the United States and Germany. But I'm going to give you a few more details on these organizations before we jump into the rest of the data set. So we interviewed people with a survey instrument that covered lots of different vertical sectors. We covered retail and consumer goods, especially those consumer goods organizations with a direct to consumer approach. But we also covered automotive organizations as well as energy and utilities and the travel and transportation and hospitality spaces. We talked to organizations of many sizes. So, as you can see here, we started at the $100 million mark, and a lot of the organizations that completed our survey were between 100 million and 1 billion in revenue, but nearly a third were those large enterprises above a billion, or indeed, some were above $5 billion in revenue. So we think this was a good cross-section of companies across verticals, across different sizes and across geographies, so that we could begin to understand some of the different approaches, as well as some of the challenges that these organizations run into. So we began by asking these organizations what their priorities are for the next 12 months, because we wanted to understand what are they thinking and where are they making investments. And we got some interesting data back from that question. First and foremost, organizations are prioritizing their compliance with new privacy laws. Then they are also looking at how to create a single customer view and improve their access to real time data. So those first three are all about having a better data driven strategy, because if you want to comply with new privacy legislation, that has to do with the way you capture, the way you store and the way you process customers private information and their personally identifiable information. And then that single customer view is something which has, I think, been a challenge for organizations for many, many years. I'm glad that we see it coming to us as a single view of the customer for the purposes of engaging with those customers versus that mythical 360 degree view, which I think is probably impossible for most organizations to achieve. Now, in addition to some of those data driven priorities, we also saw many, many priorities. We've only put the most highly awaited ones here in terms of the percentage of people who said that these things were critical or were a high priority. And I'd like to call your attention to just two more here. One is personalizing experiences, which, as we heard from Megan, is critical. And number two, collaboration with IT, because that collaboration is going to show up a few more times in the survey results, with some interesting guidance for everyone when it comes to how marketing should work more closely with their IT cohorts. Well, the subject of the survey, of course, was omnichannel. So we asked, how do you determine the channels that you're going to leverage for customer engagement? How do you decide what comes next if you're investing in a new channel? And I was really pleased to see that the number one answer to this question by a considerable margin is that focus on the channels that are preferred by the customers themselves. Now, of course, that, again, is a data driven problem. I need to capture data from my customers to understand how they want to engage with me, if indeed I'm going to honor their preferences and focus on those channels that are important to them when it comes to customer engagement. And then we saw a number of other answers here. Everything from how much reach can we get by leveraging that channel, or do we have in-house expertise that would enable us to onboard that channel more quickly? Do we have performance data, from the market or from different business units within our organization about performance on that channel? So those things are also very important. There is one interesting point here. I'm pleased that the customer lifecycle and focusing on marketing across the customer life cycle showed up as one of the top answers. But honestly, I'm a little disappointed that it showed up down at number seven in this particular list, as we'll see in the rest of the survey. Focusing on the customer lifecycle can be an important way of increasing engagement and retention and loyalty. So I would like to see that rank a little bit higher. When companies are thinking about the next channel, they're going to add into their engagement strategy. Yeah. And if I can just chime in here too. I agree with you, Rusty. I thought that was one that spoke to me as well. Like, great to see it on the list, but I think it's missing a bit of the empathy for the customer. If you aren't focused on customer lifecycle marketing, because that helps you understand where they are in their life cycle with you, where they are in their decision making, which will not only help you understand the customer, but anticipate their needs. So great, great call out, and let's let's keep it going. This is great research. Well, before you do that, I do agree with you, by the way. Especially given that the number one answer there was that focus on customer preferences, because customers may prefer different channels as they move through the customer life cycle, as we see here. Perhaps they will engage with you on a channel when it's before the purchase where they're learning about the brand, or possibly they're considering their options. And that might be where advertising and social media channels are important. But then when it comes to the purchase, some people are going to be quite happy using their mobile device to make a purchase. Others might only want to do that in the comfort of their home using a computer. Others might prefer to go out and walk into a store or a physical location, and then post-purchase. We find that there are other channels that come into play. It might be that Customer Services is using a really good chat bot, or perhaps it is a phone call and that might be what the customer prefers. So I think that customer lifecycle and that channel preference are actually linked and they're intrinsically linked. And I'd like to see brands put a bit more effort into understanding that linkage so that they can address some of the challenges that we see here. Because it is difficult in that pre-purchase phase, we see that that's where marketing is usually most focused when they are trying to work toward that conversion or it is the acquisition journey or the purchase journey where they're trying to attract that customer's attention. And so we see the percentages are highest here when it comes to the challenges that marketers encounter. But I think that's because that's where marketing focuses. And then when we get to purchase or post purchase, the numbers drop off a bit. And I don't think the challenges are actually any less challenging. I think it's just that marketing historically has not focused as much after the purchase, and that's something that I think we'll see changing as we move forward. So we ask these organizations to tell us a bit more about their data management strategy, since so many of their challenges and their priorities involved data and data management and data analytics. We wanted to understand what they're doing in order to improve their management of customer data. So we just asked to what level they are doing these various things. And do they agree that these things are important. And we can see things like data audits and data validation are important as of course, they are to a data management strategy. But I'd like to call your attention to the couple of things that we've highlighted here. Collaboration with IT at 76% of the organization saying that that is something that they agree is very important, and that heavy reliance on IT, which is only slightly smaller at 72%. I would argue that if you're collaborating with great effect with IT and that that's a relationship that's working, then it's not a heavy reliance on IT. So I think it's somewhat problematic that while organizations are collaborating with IT, so many marketers feel that they have a heavy reliance on IT. That is problematic for a couple of reasons. One, marketing is in many cases, going to wait for IT in order to get the data that they need to fuel that customer engagement. And from the IT perspective, they're going to be burdened with additional work in supporting marketing. So I think getting that collaboration right is important so that it works for both organizations, and that there isn't that heavy reliance that we see from so many of the organizations here. Yeah. And I will say, just from a marketers perspective, too, I mean, I think marketers tend to be out of all the different business functions, probably the biggest culprit for not making it as easy to work with IT. So I think there's definitely room, to grow there. And it's maybe just having those alignments with them upfront with IT upfront so that you have consistent and aligned goals but we'll talk about some advice later on, but definitely see that in a lot of customers that we work with as well. We see that too, Megan. In fact, when I speak to our enterprise architecture team at Forrester, they tell me that the feedback they're getting from the real world and out in the marketplace is that enterprise architects are really keen to work more with marketing and sales and the front office part of the business, because they recognize that that's what is most important for the brand when it comes to customer engagement. But they feel that fewer than 10% of marketers really want to work with them, and that's something that we need to fix from the marketing and the business side, definitely. Well, we did ask about that collaboration and how you can become more effective at collaborating with IT so that it doesn't become a burden. Or you don't rely on them too heavily. And the number one answer to this question is an agile data infrastructure, so that we create an infrastructure that works for marketing, that IT can support without it being a burden, without there being that heavy reliance. And then in terms of the organizations working more closely together, we got lots of great feedback from these companies, everything from just working with common tools for the technology itself or for communicating with each other. I really like this idea of spending time in the other department where a marketer might go work in the IT organization for a couple of days, and vice versa, as well as, of course, regular meetings, so that we can talk about our strategy and our goals and how we're doing, in terms of making progress. One of these that I didn't like as much, I will admit, is that we had to rely on our leadership to facilitate that collaboration. And I think if management has to make it happen, then that's already going to cause some issues from both sides. So the more that marketing and IT can proactively do the work together, the better. And of course, if you're going to work with IT and you're going to focus on your customer data strategy, we think the unification of data across the organization is going to be one of the important goals that you have. And sure enough, we see organizations making investments in advanced data platforms that will help them bring that data together. They're doing that so that they can get that single customer view that will support omnichannel engagement instead of trying to do that in silos or channel by channel, in addition to marketing, just unifying its data. Also thinking about that bigger customer lifecycle means consolidating data with other parts of the organization, including sales and service and some of the other operational processes. And of course, there's always that room, as we see here at the bottom for improvement in terms of establishing a more efficient working relationship with IT. So I'm going to wrap up here and leave you with the overall findings from the survey. We saw those benefits already. And they are significant. And with 46%, so nearly half of the organizations we interviewed telling us that the impact to customer lifetime value has been substantial. That would be reason enough to embrace this kind of strategy, but with the other benefits in terms of customer retention and long term customer loyalty and better engagement. There are lots of good reasons why you would be investing in an omnichannel strategy. If you don't, I think you run some risks, and those risks will be missing out on opportunities to earn your customers' trust, to engage with them across their journey and their customer lifecycle with your brand. And that, of course, also impacts your competitive advantage with digital channels becoming almost commoditized in terms of the expectations that customers have when they engage. Your ability to approach those channels in a relevant and consistent way becomes your competitive weapon when you are competing in very challenging marketplaces. And then finally, if you're going to do this, as you heard me say a few times, based on the data, collaboration with IT is going to be critical. And along with that working relationship, those investments that you make in more advanced data management platforms will go a long way to helping you establish an infrastructure that works for both organizations without marketing becoming a burden on IT. For all of that data and analytics work that needs to be done. And so with that, I thank you for your time. And I, trust that you saw some things in here that will work for your organization. And, Megan, I'm going to hand it back over to you. All right. Thank you Rusty. Appreciate you diving into that research. And our next portion of the webinar we have a special guest. We have one of our customers, PUMA. We have the Senior Manager CRM Global E-commerce joining us today, David Witts. So I'll ask you to come on. And I know PUMA has been a brand that is well known across the globe. No introduction really needed. But in your own words, please just tell us a bit about the mission at PUMA and the role that you play there. So, thanks for having me first of all. So yeah, we're PUMA, so sports and lifestyle, footwear and apparel brand. Our mission to be the fastest sports brand in the world. But what I really like about us is our vision. So anyone who wants to play can play. So we're a sports brand for anyone. And our products are there to help you become the best athlete you can be. And I really like that about us. So my role, I manage CRM, so I head up CRM for e-commerce, direct to consumer business globally. So overseeing our CRM activities for all our markets across the globe. Awesome. No, love to hear from you. I think that's an awesome mission. And we love being able to partner with you on your strategies for creating these experiences for your customers. So my first question for you, how important is omnichannel when it comes to your customer experience strategies? It's really important. So I think for ourselves and for anyone managing CRM, the key thing is that we're talking to the right person through the right message, in the right channel at the right time. And that's ultimately our goal. So for me, omnichannel isn't just about adding new marketing channels into the mix. It's about coordinating that message and creating a consistent message for the customer at the right time, depending on where they are in their customer journey. And that's not necessarily linear, you know. Though, people will be engaging in social media, visiting our website, on our app, referring friends. And we need to capture all of that data and look at where they're doing that and then talk to them through the right channel at the right time. So that's what we've been trying to do with our omnichannel strategy. And I think, looking at the data we're getting in, it's really clear that it isn't that linear journey, like I say. So refer a friend data, for instance, we see people who are referring friends not necessarily buying. How does that impact how we talk to them as a customer, how we treat them as a customer, beyond someone who's buying regularly might still be an active, engaged customer. So it's those sort of things that we're really looking into as to how can we make sure we're talking to each customer in the best possible way? Yeah, I mean, it kind of goes back to the research that I called out earlier of the customer lifecycle stages and understanding the segment that they're in and how that relates to how you should be connecting with them. So yeah. Yeah, so, so important. And you're learning a lot about the data that you are collecting about your customers. I'm sure this has evolved over time. So maybe just speak to how you've seen your omnichannel experience and strategies evolve over time. Yeah. Well I think it's getting more and more complex. And at the same time, customers expectations are getting stronger and stronger. I think customers now expect that most brands that they're engaging with will know something about them. They understand that trade off. Right? I give you my data, you talk to me in a personal way. And those expectations are becoming more and more. And I think especially with the introduction of Gen AI and that sort of thing, customers know that this sort of thing is possible now and they're expecting it. And at the same time, I think it's becoming harder and harder. And that's the kind of challenge in the trade off. So, you've had introductions recently from Gmail and other things that have made it significantly easier for customers to unsubscribe and mark us spam if you're not doing it. So it's just becoming more and more important to do it. And then when you've got new legislation coming in, PII becomes much more important across a lot more channels, beyond the standard CRM channels. So it's becoming more complex, but it's coming more of an expectation. So, the challenge I think, is to keep up with those customer expectations and make sure that we're talking to customers about what they want, or they will just leave and unsubscribe, which is not what we want. It's actually dull. Don't want that. And we want them coming back and coming back again and telling their friends. So, yeah, like you said, it's also like everything that you are doing and anticipating more challenges in the future. I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon. It's like, how do you set up that strategy to prepare you for the future? So I think you guys are in a really good spot. Next question here. We've talked a lot about the relationship between marketing, and IT, so curious, what has been your experience between marketing and IT functions within PUMA when it comes to building out these omnichannel experiences? Yeah. Well, I think like I said, it's complex, right? These customer journey are complex. And you need the data to be able to segment in the right way and talk to the customers in the right way. Data in PUMA sits kind of all over. So what we needed was one central point. And for us that was Emarsys. So the way we've worked with IT is we've got those automated set ups from different data sources, from a CDP into Emarsys. So as a marketer, I can then use Emarsys to do my segmentation, to do customer profiling that I need to do. And all of that can happen myself without me having to get IT involved or need the complexity of IT on a regular basis. Everything's kind of automation in set up. So that's been really key. And obviously the fact that Emarsys is then the tool that we can use for that segmentation to push out to different channels, the right message and coordinate all of that within one place has been really great. Yeah, I'm glad we can be that partner for you. And we want the best for you in the future. So let's pivot to what's next for PUMA. What's on your mind? Yeah. I think, as I said, this is getting more complex. And we're not doing it perfectly at the moment. So I think for us it's about looking at where we can look at the data more efficiently and more effectively that we're capturing, whether that's website data, which is stuff that we're getting through Emarsys, stuff we're getting through other means. Our 'refer a friend' data that we're currently getting in. How can we use all of those tools to really get a good view of the customer and make sure that we're doing the best that we can in terms of communicating to them in a way that they want through the channel that they want and and creating that really coordinated message. So we're still working on it, as I think most brands are, but I think we're getting there. And that's definitely our focus and priority for the upcoming year. Awesome. Well, we are here to support you through these endeavors. And thank you so much for being here and chatting with us about omnichannel. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So how I thought we could wrap this webinar is sharing some best practices for you to take back to your team. So one thing that we do at Emarsys when it comes to helping our customers to drive customer lifetime value with personalized omnichannel engagement, it's really a four step approach. So I'll walk through each of these in a bit more detail. Give you some highlights and then we will wrap for today. But first off, intelligently capture; second, progressive profiling; third, real time omnichannel experiences; and fourth, personalization at scale. All right. So I would say marketers don't typically have an issue with enough data. They have plenty, a lot of data that is typically coming at these marketers on a day to day basis. But the idea is how can you take that data and make it actionable and make it most effective for your goals and in your business? So a big component of that is how you connect to your customer data across your business and make it accessible to things like AI tools, business analytics, using open data so that that data can pass through across your entire business and be a really big component of amplifying that customer information that you collect. So think about how are you onboarding a customer? What is that first interaction that you have with them? And understanding their needs, their interests, their desires without any friction or leaking? Some of that data out of the funnel is really crucial when it comes to activation. So I say here being clever, not creepy is really the mentality here. David mentioned this as well. It's like people are used to giving you data if you ask for it. But how do you do that in a way that feels trusted and compliant? With the ongoing challenges that are faced in this industry? So great example here from Helly Hansen. So they're known for their outdoor clothing. They're preparing for the impact of third party cookie deprecation. And the CRM team was laser focused on how can they increase this first party data and identification to add more contacts to their database and have more marketing reach? And I think it's also worth mentioning their CRM team and their web UX team did have some conflicting KPIs at the start, different goals and different metrics for opt ins and account creation. So I mentioned earlier with discrepancies across different teams. It's key to have a clear aligned omnichannel strategy, not just in your own marketing team, but across the different functions, so that if you set that strategy upfront, it'll help you in the long run. So for example, if you have that tight collaboration and have those goals aligned, you can start to add in more channels later on and anticipate those needs. And it's not like a big shock when you want to add a new channel or a new revenue stream to your business. So what we did with Helly Hansen here is we focused on optimizing their lead gen pop ups from the web channel perspective. So you can see we have a multi-step signup process, profiling campaign set up. And we're supporting a personalized onboarding experience that set them up really well for future SMS adoption later down the line. So just some results from this. We launched it in early December, and this pop up has already seen a month over month increase of 250% conversion rate on desktop, 100% on mobile, and additionally for 45.5% of respondents have shared their SMS number, which is huge. The goal is how can we take all these different channels and have them work for us, not against us? All right, so the second thing I'll talk through here as we're going through the step by step process is all around progressive profiling. So likely if you're listening to this, you know what it is. But, keep in mind, it is one of the most crucial tactics not only to keep your data up to date, but to keep it relevant. So in simple terms, customers will initially sign up on your website and leave their information, whether it's their name, email, basic preference data. But as you build this trust with them, you can come back and ask for more. And they can come back and engage with you through various touchpoints. And this is a great opportunity for you to check in and collect that data over time. So you just need to be thinking about what are those stages and what are those pieces of data that we want to collect. So these tactics are great to reengage your customer. So great example here. We work with a large golf company, and apparel brands, and they have an automated campaign for accounts where they are looking to find the right fit for their customers. And it comes to the right swing, the right clubs, everything, of that nature and that could change over time, that can fluctuate as those golfers mature in their skill set. And their buddies on the course and they're seeing that they may need to have an upgrade. So as they are refreshing their data, they're checking in. They have this on a yearly basis to see if they're ready for an upgrade. And then if so, they point them to a local fitter to get them started. All right. So next up, when it comes to real time omnichannel strategy, my biggest advice would be not to just add a channel to check a box. So think of channels as a revenue stream that can bring you the data you need to be more relevant and have that more real time experience for your customers. So think about what information in that customer life cycle stages are you missing? What channels are going to allow you to collect and activate that data more quickly? Not every channel, I would say is relevant for every business or target audience, so adding channels without considering the preferences or the behaviors of that specific audience may result in wasted resources, wasted effort, and if you're working with IT, it's wasted time working with your IT team as well. So just think about all the different parameters when it comes to adding new channels and seeing where is the value in the overall life cycle. And lastly, I can't leave this webinar without talking about AI and talking about personalization at scale. So talking about how can we make every communication relevant and every communication count at scale. So it's something that is probably been brought up at your company many times, especially in the last year. But AI is going to be crucial. You're probably being asked to incorporate that into your day to day, but of course that can be a bit overwhelming depending on your resources. If you're an older brand that's been around for 170 years, or if you're a new and mobile first brand, all of these somewhat different complexities. So I would say ways to just get started in this area of intelligent marketing would be product recommendations and dynamic content. So you can see from our research, even testing to identify what the right offers are can be a bit challenging. So start by just looking at those segments of audiences that you can see, that you can interact with based on particular categories and see where they're buying in that lifecycle stage. So this alone can help you to be more effective. And you'll start to see impact quickly just by doing that segmentation and starting to recommend products accordingly. And then later on, I think you can start to see how you can take those learnings and push that into a more granular 1 to 1 view. So personal product recommendations and dynamic content will be key. All right. So we are a platform to help you to do all that we have talked about today. At Emarsys, we help you to personalize omnichannel engagements and grow customer lifetime value. We're going to help you to connect across the entire experience and integrate both operational as well as customer data. We're going to help you to make insightful data driven decisions, all powered by AI, and help you to adapt to market needs with speed and agility with a very composable platform that allows you to connect data across several different areas across your business and use that data to push out using our open data ecosystem. All right. So if you want to learn more, we have some resources for you. So go ahead and visit our hub page. This gives you more omnichannel marketing strategy tips and tricks. Ask for help. So if you just need a little bit of help, maybe you have limited resources, or you don't want to have to invest in all of the research behind omnichannel strategies, we have studio offerings with our services team. We also have free trainings with our training team if you are an Emarsys customer. And then request a demo if you're new to Emarsys and you just want to understand how our solution can help you. We'd love to give you a demo and talk about how we can help your brand grow. That's a wrap for today. We do have time for one question though. So one that I saw pop up is if you had to pick one channel to invest in this year, which would you pick and why? So, Rusty, I will pick you first. Do you have an idea of how you'd answer that? Sure. Well, I don't think there's one correct answer to that question. I think it'll be different for every organization. And I'm going to defer to the respondents of our survey who said that the most important criterion that they apply to choosing a new channel to activate would be customer preferences. So it will be down to the channels that your customers prefer as to where you would turn next. Awesome. David, any any thoughts from you to wrap this up? I think I just echo that, yeah. I think the key thing is to look at the overall picture and how you're coordinating your message across channels. It's best for your customer. So look at your customer and that's your answer. Well thank you both for being here. Appreciate your time. And thanks for those listening to our webinar. We hope to see you soon. Thanks for being here.